No politics in this one. I am looking for LDS doctrine on this one and supporting publications.
Question: In the LDS plan of salvation can one progress from one kingdom to another in the afterlife? I believe not, but living in the south and Bible belt sometimes our quorum discussions get close to discussions that I believe are not quite what the LDS manuals teach. We had this discussion in our meetings this week and I want to back up my position. We had some statements that made me raise an eyebrow and ask where did that come from. I believe from one's (the lesson facilitator's) previous affiliations but was taught in our quorum lesson.
10 comments:
I always understood that once we have been judged and earn our Kingdom, we cannot Kingdom hop. Maybe....I am guessing that we can have increase with in our assigned Kingdom....but there will be no increase in Kingdoms.
The church website says "Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected. After we are resurrected, we will stand before the Lord to be judged according to our desires and actions. Each of us will accordingly receive an ETERNAL dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory. The Lord taught this principle when He said, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2)." If we are assigned an "Eternal Dwelling Place"...eternal means forever as I see it. If we move around then we won't be in our assigned glory eternally will we?
Joseph Smith also said the following:
"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthodd (meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage); and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase."
This of course is referring just to the Celestial Glory, and I understand that to mean that that there is no moving up to the highest part of the Glory with out the Celestial Marraige, but that one can increase with in the lesser two parts.
That's my understanding. Dad might have some great insight on all of this...as he has taught Gospel Doctrine a lot. Hope he chimes in. Teresa
Teresa is correct. We can progress within a Kingdom but not go up from one to an other. M
However, General Authorities have often stated (don't have time to find the specific quote) that we believe in "eternal progression." That's rather cryptic, but I think there is much more to the plan of salvation, assignments, responsibilities, dwelling locations, and the like that has not been revealed.
Now I will add my little bit. I am sure that what Teresa has said is correct. I have carefully studied the 76th Section of the Doctrine & Covenants and it is most specific in that The degrees of glory merited are for all eternity to follow. See D & C 76:51-52, 69-70 and also verse 112. Now I have used just these few verses and urge you to carefully study the whole Section.
To put it short. Once judged and given a kingdom of glory (and it will be that) you do NOT progress up from one to the other! For all the rest of all eternity you will remain within that kingdom of Glory.
You will be able to increase in knowledge and understanding therefore having a progression within that kingdom.
Also, as Teresa said, within the Celestial Kingdom only those who have been sealed in Holy Matrimony can attain the highest degree within that Celestial Kingdom and progress to be come as God now is.
That is to have an eternal increase and have the opportunity to give spiritual life to intelligences who then may be given the opportunity to go to an earth and gain physical bodies and continue the process of ETERNAL LIFE. THIS IS OUR GOAL. (Or should be!) If you will read in I Nephi you will learn that the gate by which we are admitted to the Celestial Kingdom is baptism by immersion, and by one having the authority to do so and then receiving the Holy Ghost. After that, we need to continue faithful tot he end....that being the time of judgment. Now due to the atonement made by the savior, even though we are not perfect now, we can become perfect before the time of judgment by our sincere repentance. All of our family has received the ordinance of baptism, so we do have our "foot in the door", but we all need to be faithful to the end in order to attain that Celestial Kingdom. I pray each day that we may all so.
Love, Dad
You may all chortle a bit at me chiming in, but Teresa's description is how I remember it.
But I loved Alan's comment. It seems to me that eternity, if indeed there is one with us in it, is so incomprehensible that surely there must be more to it than that.
Alan is right. There is alot more to be revealed, and I am sure there is more to the Plan. I also beleive "eternal progression" means further opportunities for learning and experiences to help us grow. I imagine we will be able to do that no matter what kingdom of glory we reside. In that sence, we are progressing eternally for sure. There are never ending possibilities of things we can study and learn. I have always wanted to learn to play other musical instruments besides the piano, and the way I see it, I will have the eternities to pursue that. I am BAAAAd as science....I have the eternities to study it and understand it better. There are probably sciences that we as human have never even discovered or heard of, how incredible it will be to study them. and of course spiritual progression is always lacking in human kind. When I think about it, I try to do what is right, but I know I am lacking in deep spiritual understanding and connection to the powers that are greater than I. My faith could be greater, my dedication could be greater, my understaninding and ability to listen to the Holy Ghost could all be sooo much greater. As it is...I am sure I have only skimmed the surface to them all.
However, the scriptures do teach us that now is the time for repentance and that we should not procrastinate that, so I am not sure if we will be able to repent right up until judgement. Maybe....after insight in the spirit world after we die, we will be given an opportunity for further repentance but that isn't clear to me and I am not counting on that. I need to be focusing on repentance each day, so that I am caught up on that before I die. I think the warning to "not procrastinate the day of your repentance" is a real warning! Teresa
My thoughts are that we need to do our best while we are here on earth. We are ALL going to fall short to some respect but because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ he has suffered for our sins that we have fallen short on. We cannot achieve perfection here on earth. Sometimes I think about Jesus in Gesemeny and his agony as he took the sins of all man kind, I just try to live in a way so that his agony for my sins are at a minimum. I have not always done things right but I am grateful for repentance.
Isabelle, I do appreciate your response. You are on track and I love you for it. Please know of our love for you. You have made tremendous strides in the past few years and I am so grateful.
Love, Dad
She has always been ACES in my book too.
The definative LDS CHURCH DOCTRINAL ANSWER to Brian's DOCTRINAL question is this:
According to President George A. Smith (pg. 36, Teachings of George Albert Smith) he writes "There is no progression from kingdom to kingdom...there are some people who have supposed that if we are quickened telestial bodies that eventually, throughout the ages of eternity, we will progress until we will find our place in the celestial kingdom, but the scriptures and revelations of God have said that those who are quickened telestial bodies CANNOT come where God and Christ dwell, worlds without end."
Bruce R. McConkie adds (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 384, {1st edition}) "Only the celestial kingdom is the kingdom of God where the faithful saints will gain their eternal inheritance. All who fall short of the glory of eternal life will in greater or lesser degree be damned (even though they dwell in a kingdom of glory), FOR THEIR ETERNAL PROGRESS WILL BE LIMITED, AND THEY CAN NEVER GO ON TO AN ETERNAL FULNESS IN THE FATHER'S PRESENCE (see D&C 132:16-17."
These I belive give the LDS official stance. Meaning that there is no advancing between kingdoms. Upon further readings and studying, one can go down and visit but one may never go up to visit a loved one. In that case, I'll always welcome visits.
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